Comments for Long Pointers http://www.matthew-long.com Matt Long's Blog About Programming and Stuff Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:58:05 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 Comment on That Sucking Sound Is Java Killing Your Soul by perlmunger http://www.matthew-long.com/2008/05/15/that-sucking-sound-is-java-killing-your-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-127463 perlmunger Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:58:05 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/?p=111#comment-127463 @ IPMCC Good points. Obviously it's all subjective. I disagree with you as I feel Xcode is a very strong development tool, but in the end it's Java I have a problem with. I don't care how good the tools are, Java is still Java. For me, it sucks the life out of programming. You can say, well that's just because of all of the frameworks, it's not really Java. That's just silly as you *have to* navigate the labrynthe, as you called it, to create anything useful. When I have to wrestle with that garbage, I find no joy in it. What do you feel is missing in Xcode? -Matt @ IPMCC

Good points. Obviously it’s all subjective. I disagree with you as I feel Xcode is a very strong development tool, but in the end it’s Java I have a problem with. I don’t care how good the tools are, Java is still Java. For me, it sucks the life out of programming. You can say, well that’s just because of all of the frameworks, it’s not really Java. That’s just silly as you *have to* navigate the labrynthe, as you called it, to create anything useful. When I have to wrestle with that garbage, I find no joy in it.

What do you feel is missing in Xcode?

-Matt

]]> Comment on That Sucking Sound Is Java Killing Your Soul by ipmcc http://www.matthew-long.com/2008/05/15/that-sucking-sound-is-java-killing-your-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-127462 ipmcc Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:30:08 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/?p=111#comment-127462 While I sympathize with the labyrinthine bulk of frameworks and in general can agree with most of your criticisms of Java, I'm always nervous when I see people extolling the virtues of Xcode/MacOS/iPhone development. You see, I do Objective-C development full time, and I just can't see how, assuming you've worked with Eclipse, you can possibly find Xcode to be a superior tools experience. I can readily see loving AppKit/UIKit, and Objective-C is a great language from an "interacting with the frameworks" standpoint, but the tools? Really? If there's one credit I have to give to Java and .NET, it's that their huge markets have spawned truly first rate tools. Xcode on the other hand, while ordained by Apple as the "one true way," has a long way to go to compete for development "acceleration" capabilities long brandished by Eclipse and Visual Studio.NET. What's worse is that by being ordained AND free, Xcode has effectively quashed all hopes for any third party coming along and improving things. It's hard to compete with ordained and free. I love the platform too, don't get me wrong, but the tools have a LONG way to go, and when you talk about development being fun, tools have a huge impact on that, at least from where I sit. While I sympathize with the labyrinthine bulk of frameworks and in general can agree with most of your criticisms of Java, I’m always nervous when I see people extolling the virtues of Xcode/MacOS/iPhone development. You see, I do Objective-C development full time, and I just can’t see how, assuming you’ve worked with Eclipse, you can possibly find Xcode to be a superior tools experience. I can readily see loving AppKit/UIKit, and Objective-C is a great language from an “interacting with the frameworks” standpoint, but the tools? Really? If there’s one credit I have to give to Java and .NET, it’s that their huge markets have spawned truly first rate tools. Xcode on the other hand, while ordained by Apple as the “one true way,” has a long way to go to compete for development “acceleration” capabilities long brandished by Eclipse and Visual Studio.NET. What’s worse is that by being ordained AND free, Xcode has effectively quashed all hopes for any third party coming along and improving things. It’s hard to compete with ordained and free. I love the platform too, don’t get me wrong, but the tools have a LONG way to go, and when you talk about development being fun, tools have a huge impact on that, at least from where I sit.

]]> Comment on Nobody Uses JavaServer Faces by JSF sucks « Incremental Operations http://www.matthew-long.com/2008/01/04/nobody-uses-javaserver-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-126973 JSF sucks « Incremental Operations Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:08:36 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/2008/01/04/nobody-uses-javaserver-faces/#comment-126973 [...] Nobody Uses JavaServer Faces – blog post by Matt Long. Quote: The bottom line is I’ve done a lot of web applications in [...] [...] Nobody Uses JavaServer Faces – blog post by Matt Long. Quote: The bottom line is I’ve done a lot of web applications in [...]

]]> Comment on XCode 3.0 Tutorial by davidterpin http://www.matthew-long.com/2007/11/09/xcode-30-tutorial/comment-page-1/#comment-106482 davidterpin Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:09:03 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/2007/11/09/xcode-30-tutorial/#comment-106482 Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to explain x-code and also for the tutorial on cocoa for the iphone apps. Its been about 20 years since I was a programmer (c) and I was so frustrated trying to find any help on learning a new language. Your blogs have been so helpful and I really appreciate them. Finally, I had some success programing on my macs stupid terminal and x-code. Its starting to all make sense again.! Thanks for doing what you do well ! david terpin Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to explain x-code and also for the tutorial on cocoa for the iphone apps.
Its been about 20 years since I was a programmer (c) and I was so frustrated trying to find any help on learning a new language.
Your blogs have been so helpful and I really appreciate them. Finally, I had some success programing on my macs stupid terminal and x-code. Its starting to all make sense again.!
Thanks for doing what you do well !
david terpin

]]> Comment on That Sucking Sound Is Java Killing Your Soul by perlmunger http://www.matthew-long.com/2008/05/15/that-sucking-sound-is-java-killing-your-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-80708 perlmunger Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:55:41 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/?p=111#comment-80708 @Guurk Geeze. That was long... Feel better now? ;-) p.s. You're never going to buy that place in Breck back with that attitude. ;-) Just write an iPhone app and make your billions. It's really that easy!!! :-D @Guurk

Geeze. That was long…

Feel better now? ;-)

p.s. You’re never going to buy that place in Breck back with that attitude. ;-) Just write an iPhone app and make your billions. It’s really that easy!!! :-D

]]> Comment on That Sucking Sound Is Java Killing Your Soul by My Code Fu is Strong » Java Doesn’t Need a Defence http://www.matthew-long.com/2008/05/15/that-sucking-sound-is-java-killing-your-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-80707 My Code Fu is Strong » Java Doesn’t Need a Defence Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:52:34 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/?p=111#comment-80707 [...] Here’s the link. [...] [...] Here’s the link. [...]

]]> Comment on That Sucking Sound Is Java Killing Your Soul by guurk http://www.matthew-long.com/2008/05/15/that-sucking-sound-is-java-killing-your-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-80706 guurk Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:46:44 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/?p=111#comment-80706 Ok... where do I start? Calling me a Java advocate is probably not strong enough a description, as anyone that knows me could verify (ask Matt). Java is the bomb diggity; strait up, period, and more fun that bulls-eyeing wamp rats in your T-16 back home. Who doesn't like annotations? Talk about fun! Who doesn't like declarative programming? Show me one and I'll show you someone who doesn't know what it is. Show me a language that can express good OO patterns better than Java... there isn't one. That's fun? Yes, that's fun. Good design, better, good forced OO practice enforced by language couldn't be more fun. You get to focus on 'business logic', not rehashing the same ol' stuff that's already been done 1000 times by programmers way better than you. (How many lines does it take to parse a text file again?) You don't 'need' a <i>Factory</i> every time, it just makes it easier to use that library that provides all the functionality that you are using for free. Fun programming is about sharing. Yes, I get lambasted because I never make money with my side projects, because I contribute back to the community. That's a personal call. But truly, what better language to share concepts, examples, libraries than Java. GUI design tool? Whoever is focusing on Java as a GUI platform is missing the point of Java. Java has always been and always will be about server frameworks and web applications. That's what it's good at. Not to say that Java can't be used for GUI (read my-big-fat-greek-client). It can be. But don't equate Java with Swing. That would be like equating Java with Xerces. Xerces, Swing, SWT, Corba, LDAP, JMX, EJB3, Hibernate, AWT, SQL, etc. can be used with Java via built-in or external libraries. What language doesn't have all those kind of things available? Heck, that's part of what makes Java great, and fun. You need to get something done, quickly, well? There's a library that can help. On the other Cocoa and .NET are almost impossible to separate from their GUI tool sets. It's like comparing a watermelon to an Apple and a moldy strawberry. I find it odd that Matt makes the argument from the stand point of the development environment. It can be fun to learn a new development system... but if by some chance you don't like it? What if you don't like Eclipse? Go to JBuilder. JBuilder not you cup of tea? Netbeans. Netbeans not your bag baby? JCode. Just not into the whole mouse usage? Emacs, VI, Visual Slick Edit... all work great with Java. Want to do .NET development? Don't like Visual Studio? ... um... um... yeah. Want to do Cocoa development? Don't like X-Code? ... um... um... yeah. For me, fun is about making something that I think is cool, and maybe, just maybe, something that others find is cool too. However, it's more about the journey than the end product. I've learned that over years of false starts and cool ideas. Java allows me to express myself, and then reuse the hard work on one dead-end path with my newest, greatest idea. Not even C/C++ allowed me the freedom and security that I have Java. Not even a scripting language can go as many places or explore as many different worlds. C/C++... play with cross-platform compliers all day long. .NET... just feel violated because you know you are being raped with a closed source, closed platform, closed library set that costs way to much ( > 0 ) .PHP/Python... great for what they do, but now you want to do data replication and clustering of applications? Find me the libraries that do that. Cocoa... but I really want to make something that everyone can use. And to be quite honest, "you're so busy finding out if you can make your button wiggle, fade in and out, vibrate, flip end-for-end, you don't stop to think if it <b>should</b>". Ok… where do I start? Calling me a Java advocate is probably not strong enough a description, as anyone that knows me could verify (ask Matt).

Java is the bomb diggity; strait up, period, and more fun that bulls-eyeing wamp rats in your T-16 back home.

Who doesn’t like annotations? Talk about fun! Who doesn’t like declarative programming? Show me one and I’ll show you someone who doesn’t know what it is.

Show me a language that can express good OO patterns better than Java… there isn’t one. That’s fun? Yes, that’s fun. Good design, better, good forced OO practice enforced by language couldn’t be more fun. You get to focus on ‘business logic’, not rehashing the same ol’ stuff that’s already been done 1000 times by programmers way better than you. (How many lines does it take to parse a text file again?) You don’t ‘need’ a Factory every time, it just makes it easier to use that library that provides all the functionality that you are using for free.

Fun programming is about sharing. Yes, I get lambasted because I never make money with my side projects, because I contribute back to the community. That’s a personal call. But truly, what better language to share concepts, examples, libraries than Java.

GUI design tool? Whoever is focusing on Java as a GUI platform is missing the point of Java. Java has always been and always will be about server frameworks and web applications. That’s what it’s good at.

Not to say that Java can’t be used for GUI (read my-big-fat-greek-client). It can be. But don’t equate Java with Swing. That would be like equating Java with Xerces. Xerces, Swing, SWT, Corba, LDAP, JMX, EJB3, Hibernate, AWT, SQL, etc. can be used with Java via built-in or external libraries. What language doesn’t have all those kind of things available? Heck, that’s part of what makes Java great, and fun. You need to get something done, quickly, well? There’s a library that can help.

On the other Cocoa and .NET are almost impossible to separate from their GUI tool sets. It’s like comparing a watermelon to an Apple and a moldy strawberry.

I find it odd that Matt makes the argument from the stand point of the development environment. It can be fun to learn a new development system… but if by some chance you don’t like it?

What if you don’t like Eclipse? Go to JBuilder. JBuilder not you cup of tea? Netbeans. Netbeans not your bag baby? JCode. Just not into the whole mouse usage? Emacs, VI, Visual Slick Edit… all work great with Java.

Want to do .NET development? Don’t like Visual Studio? … um… um… yeah.

Want to do Cocoa development? Don’t like X-Code? … um… um… yeah.

For me, fun is about making something that I think is cool, and maybe, just maybe, something that others find is cool too. However, it’s more about the journey than the end product. I’ve learned that over years of false starts and cool ideas.

Java allows me to express myself, and then reuse the hard work on one dead-end path with my newest, greatest idea. Not even C/C++ allowed me the freedom and security that I have Java. Not even a scripting language can go as many places or explore as many different worlds.

C/C++… play with cross-platform compliers all day long.

.NET… just feel violated because you know you are being raped with a closed source, closed platform, closed library set that costs way to much ( > 0 )

.PHP/Python… great for what they do, but now you want to do data replication and clustering of applications? Find me the libraries that do that.

Cocoa… but I really want to make something that everyone can use. And to be quite honest, “you’re so busy finding out if you can make your button wiggle, fade in and out, vibrate, flip end-for-end, you don’t stop to think if it should“.

]]> Comment on The managed object model version used to open the persistent store is incompatible with the one that was used to create the persistent store. by torrance http://www.matthew-long.com/2007/11/02/the-managed-object-model-version-used-to-open-the-persistent-store-is-incompatible-with-the-one-that-was-used-to-create-the-persistent-store/comment-page-1/#comment-73388 torrance Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:28:44 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/2007/11/02/the-managed-object-model-version-used-to-open-the-persistent-store-is-incompatible-with-the-one-that-was-used-to-create-the-persistent-store/#comment-73388 Just created an account to say thanks for this! I'd been getting this error since upgrading Smultron quite a while ago. It wasn't fatal, but was annoying getting it on every startup. So thanks very much! Just created an account to say thanks for this!
I’d been getting this error since upgrading Smultron quite a while ago. It wasn’t fatal, but was annoying getting it on every startup. So thanks very much!

]]> Comment on XCode 3.0 Tutorial by hz37 http://www.matthew-long.com/2007/11/09/xcode-30-tutorial/comment-page-1/#comment-68899 hz37 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:41:03 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/2007/11/09/xcode-30-tutorial/#comment-68899 Thank you so much for this! I have HilleGass' book, but got stuck. Same thing with Apple's documentation. Now I can move on! Excellent! Hens Zimmerman Thank you so much for this! I have HilleGass’ book, but got stuck. Same thing with Apple’s documentation. Now I can move on! Excellent!

Hens Zimmerman

]]> Comment on That Sucking Sound Is Java Killing Your Soul by jag http://www.matthew-long.com/2008/05/15/that-sucking-sound-is-java-killing-your-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-64750 jag Fri, 18 Jul 2008 02:09:41 +0000 http://www.matthew-long.com/?p=111#comment-64750 I agree completely that Java can be quite tedious, but it does the things I need on the server side without much setup hassle, like creating zip files and accessing (Oracle) databases. Working with Java on UNIX sure beats the heck out of .Not on Windows (for me, anyway). I use Perl when I can (Python isn't permitted here :-( ), but installing the modules can be such a supreme hassle. After 30 years of server-side development, I'm studying hard to try to make the transition over to the Mac with Xcode/Cocoa/ObjC. (Your tutorials are much appreciated! :) I like Java much better than I like straight C, but the combination of Cocoa and ObjC goes a long way towards alleviating the pain of C. I agree completely that Java can be quite tedious, but it does the things I need on the server side without much setup hassle, like creating zip files and accessing (Oracle) databases. Working with Java on UNIX sure beats the heck out of .Not on Windows (for me, anyway).

I use Perl when I can (Python isn’t permitted here :-( ), but installing the modules can be such a supreme hassle.

After 30 years of server-side development, I’m studying hard to try to make the transition over to the Mac with Xcode/Cocoa/ObjC. (Your tutorials are much appreciated! :)

I like Java much better than I like straight C, but the combination of Cocoa and ObjC goes a long way towards alleviating the pain of C.

]]>